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Sunday, June 07, 2020

Season 2019/2020


Dear Friends in refrigeration,
 We Finished the 2015/6 Season with our "London Walk"  on April 9th so we now look forward to the next season's programme -- join us if you can
On Thursday 10th March 2016
17 members and guests attended The Greenwich Tavern for our monthly meet but unfortunately our planned speaker was unavoidably unavailable so we had a lively ad-hoc chat session which ranged from John Pavia’s frustration at trying to get the right relay box for a compressor to Car A/C  systems that use dedicated refrigerant to a motor manufacture at a cost of £1000 per 5kg cylinder, and should there be a “share stock holding” of these gasses?
How do we generate greater interest in sharing technical knowledge? Is it by contacting MD’s of companies say within 10 mile radius of Greenwich to encourage their engineers to attend “breakfast clubs!  BK said he would work with Lee to see numbers of companies with refrigeration links in the area.
A warning was issued re MAP gas Yellow cylinders which had a safety concern. If you have these in stock contact your wholesaler


Our next and last meeting of the season is on Thu 14th April  (meeting with partners if you wish) at St Pauls Underground Station at Street level – (Cathedral Side at 6pm for a gentle walk at your societies expense) around  the South Bank finishing at a pub or two near to London Bridge or Tower Hill stations after 2 hours chat and history lesson from our host Blue Badge Guide Stan Medland.  We meet early to get the best of the evening light!

Our meeting in February was a belated Christmas meal by our regular members and partners, a pleasant event with 30 attending the Greenwich Tavern.



Welcome to our January 2015  minutes

12 members and 6 guests attended for a presentation by Chris Alexander ofVulcan Lokringon Pipe jointing and leak detection.

Chair: Malcolm Lay and as ever our thanks to our Meetings Organiser: Brendan O’Reilly who with our treasurer were unavoidably absent

A group of visitors from J&E Hall were welcomed and Chris began with a brief Introduction of the Vulcan Lokring Company who have been agents for this system in England for over twenty five years, some of the older members remembering a previous presentation by Chris’s predecessor.

Using video presentations we saw that the Lokring system is not restricted to just air-conditioning and refrigeration but is used in any gas or fluid industry including automotives as being a mechanical pipe jointing system no ‘Hot Work’ or other safe working restrictions apply. With a tag line of ‘one system – endless possibilities’ it is distributed worldwide and used throughout domestic, commercial and industrial organisations.

Loctite is used as a lubricant for the joints but it is a compression fitting applied with a manual crimping tool which compresses the specialised fitting axially so that it is deformed by a collar sliding along the inner part to seal it into and onto the outside of the pipes that forms and seals the joint.

The range of pipe sizes, copper or aluminium, the system covers is split between the mainly domestic, covering 1.6mmØ to 11mmØ with some of the fittings specially suited to joining capillaries into standard pipe, and a larger range called the 50 series where the crimper compresses eachside of the joint to the pipe in turn which covers the range 5mmØ to 35mmØ. Onlargersizestheinternalboreofthepipework can be slightly reduced but on capillary lines, due to the thickness of the tube wall, this does not happen.

Each range has a mechanical crimper which was demonstrated with interchangeable jaws for each size of joint, and with the 50 series having a swivel jawed version for restricted access.

Also shown were display cases to illustrate the versatility of the fittings and the sizes of the pipe to be connected.

Comments were made about aluminium fittings which are rated at a higher pressure now 50bar - up from 25bar, also stressing the need to use different tools to those for copper and aluminium to avoid contaminating one with the other and so introducing corrosion.

A protecting shrink wrap sleeve was shown to cover fittings when of a dissimilar metal to the pipework for a similar effect.

It was pointed out that the use of aluminium pipe in a refrigeration systemcancausesimilar problems as most components are of different metals.

Following our liquid refreshment interval aVideo presentationon electronicleak detection was played stressing the difference between detecting with Nitrogen, Helium or Hydrogen; the former having been used for some time, whilst the latter with their smaller molecules, improves response could be better.

Inflating tyres with Nitrogen, which is formed of larger molecules, which therefore leaks more slowly, is another indication of this.

If using Nitrogen as the trace gas a system pressure up to 50bar may exceed the working pressure of some of the components; whereas using hydrogen the pressure canbelimitedtobetween7and10barwithleaks still beingdetectable,eventhrough insulation. This lower test pressure is also a safety feature reducing the ‘blowing out’ or shattering of sight glasses.

The video continued with a demonstration of a compressor replacement on a domestic system utilising the Locring fittings but it was marred by the poor or illegal practice of dumping the charge out the window!

ThespeakerexhibitedaLeakdetectingdevice, whichselfcalibratestothelevelof Atmospheric Hydrogen; this was demonstrated by the use of a hydrogen filled balloon which gave a leak reading for the hydrogen escaping through the rubber. This system had been used to trace oil leaks from Varon transmissions, the casings of which are extremely thin walled aluminium castings.

 Finally, products of Refrigeration Technologies, whom Vulcan Locring are agents, were presented including joint sealant called NYLOC which is used on mateing surfaces of a flare as it is both a sealant and a lubricant. It has been used to cure nut splitting caused by condensation tracking and then freezing. A third video was downloaded from the internet on NYLOC showing how it allows dismantling of gaskets, ‘O’ rings and Schrader valves.

 NYLOC is available through selected wholesalers in two types for use with either Esta or Hydrocarbon oil using systems.

 Their web site is www.vulcan.com and Chris can be contacted on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 Our meeting in February has no speaker and our regular meeting members have opted for a meal at a local hostelry

  Our March meeting is planned at the Greenwich Tavern on Thursday Mar. 10th starting at 7.30p

"The problems with cooling surgical units in Ethiopia " by Dr Helen Fitzgerald


Welcome to our December 2015 minutes

On Thursday 10th Dec 2015 at our monthly meeting :-
Mr Julian Williams of Tower Systems presented 15 members with a detailed description of his firm, stating loyalty from the 15 key workers have jointly given 340 years of quality service to the company and industry.
Tower Systems distribute and deal only with Cooling Towers, and their components including their fill, drift eliminators, coils, evaporative fans, motors and bearings. Their range is extensive with numerous configurations and designs and multi sizes up to 3.6m wide by 11m long. Each factory assembled and certified, they are capable of being lifted on to buildings, but as Julian showed with his extensive pictures, cranes in restricted width streets with jib extensions lifting to a height of 24 storey buildings, takes lots of negotiation with transport companies Local Authorities etc.
 Many replacement towers in old buildings have to be constructed in sections with lift and door sizes in mind. Crucial plant too has to be kept working so multi cell towers are replaced in low demand seasons to keep the water flowing!
Repairs to others manufacturers units are undertaken and pictorial demonstrations of previous poor workmanship found and re repaired by Tower Systems.
Phone their Watford Office on or his mob.
Click  their manual below
    Tower Systems Products and Services Sheet .pdf



Welcome to our November 12th 2015 minutes

14 attended to hear our speaker  Mr Glan Blake Thomas of Flexiblespace.com (based in East Grinstead) who gave a most interesting talk on

“Under floor Heating and Air Conditioning” but of course it was a much deeper subject than it first appeared!      Glan highlighted that in 1860 there were 1 billion humans on earth   1950 there were 3 Billion  and in 2100  there will be 7 Billion      Also in Madagascar the population discard 300 times their body weight in rubbish per year.  Whilst in Europe each person’s equivalent dump is 1500 times, but in America a massive 4500 times obviously these figures indicate that the world is wasteful and its resources are not infinite. 

New buildings around the world demand Power in the form of Heating, Air Conditioning and for Computing and just living. Where does it come from?  New builds are conceived as perfect, but the second tenant revamps, meaning walls power etc are in the wrong place – its very costly and time consuming refiting using “standard methods” as current standards are solid floors, and ductwork across ceilings; with a/c units in external walls etc 

 Glan’s company have conceived many large buildings around the world such as Beijing, Kuwait, Shanghai, London etc all with floor voids which contain the air flow and return systems, power for desks, water and drainage, for all users vending machines, catering etc.

The square grid walking surfaces protecting the services can be of wood, stone carpet or any other customers finish each which can be lifted and services accessed and repositioned speedily. 

 Air terminals in the floor are individually programmed from phones etc to give local comfort. Internal walls can be moved easily along with services, very speedily and without major reconstruction of the fabric of the bulding.

 By doing away with 600mm ceiling voids and just using the floor void, costs are reduced, as is the total height of floors. In Hong Kong with out sacrificing quality, the original ceiling based design proposed building to be 387m high but with underfloor systems it was built at 352m giving around 10% cost and material saving, more flexibility, less solar gain and reduced elevator power etc etc 

 I’m sure this is the way to go in the future (think of ease of over spill air from Multideck cabinets being entrained into the floor eliminating cold isles in supermarkets) New store layouts without dedicated floor chasings. Flexiblespace have already made 3 stores for Marks and Spencer for example. 

 Go on line check out the logic, www.flexiblespace.com, tell your contacts, mention you heard of it at the LRS.   Friends you missed a very interesting meeting.

 Contact    Glan Blake Thomas This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.   or   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

  201/3 London Road, East Grinstead, West Sussex, RH191HA              phone  01342310400

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Report on LRS meeting of Oct 8th 2015

As ever most arrived early to have a meal together and discus the topics of the day

Regretfully our planned speaker Mr Neil  Panting of Fujitsu  was unable to attend at the last minute so emergency plans kicked in where our treasurer presented our accounts for the previous session for the members comments. Thanks were expressed for looking after the books which show a deficit on the year of £434.12 this still leaves the society of a healthy balance thanks to the wisdom of our founders way back in the 1950’s; when they set up an income from the exhibitions. But unfortunately due to exhibition shrinkage and change of owners this funding has dried up. Active membership too has shrunk although our mailing list remains valid.

 New member Zabar has set us up with a Face book and Twitter account. Look them up and pass on the message that London refrigeration Society is alive and well.

It was suggested that we try to set up a “Networking Café” where local trades associated with refrigeration are invite to meet in an informal atmosphere to exchange contacts and feeds! Don’t know if I have put this right but Lee will investigate contact listings from around a 30 mile radius of Greenwich and report back.

We spent some time mulling over 30 quiz questions whilst the usual liquid refreshments were devoured!

 On Thursday November 12th we have the 3rd meeting of this season where  “Under-floor Air-Conditioning Technology” will be presented by Glan Blake of Advanced Ergonomic Technologies  sounds interesting    See you all at the Greenwich Tavern by 7.30pm on the 12th



September 10th  2015 minutes

"Life After R404A - planning for the phase down with low GWP Alternative"  Mark Hughes - Opteon Refrigerants


We were very pleased to welcome 14 engineers to The Greenwich Tavern, (most came early to chat and eat before ascending the stairs to the comfortable upper room for our meeting!  


Mr Martyn Sentence of BOC introduced our speaker Mark Hughes Business Manager of “CHEMOURS” which means “CHEMICAL and OURS” - There is 200 years of experience in the trade with Dupont - now with 6000 employees, and 5000 customers. Their declaration is to plough all profits back into the industry not to buy up other companies! (of the type DuPont did)


Mark gave a very informative talk and visual display of Gasses of the Future or how does the phase down of HFC's affect everybody from Designer, End User and installation Engineer.


Their product gasses OPTEON (XP40) are retrofit for Stationary - OPTEON (XP44) for Transport Refrigeration Systems and XP10 for R134a replacements - all obviously have low GWP potential.


Regulations on Global Warming are getting tighter and slowly being recognized around the world at last.


Phase down of HFC production to a CO2 equivalent is on line.


The quotas available to place on the market are based on average sales between 2009 and 2012 and these were equal to 183 MILLION TONS of CO2 in 2015: which consists of all HFCs used for new installation and to service leakage to atmosphere.   And by end of 2017 this must be reduced by a further 37% and then year by year reducing further. So good planning now is urgent for Endusers Designers and Engineers. We must continue to emphasize that Legislation,  more Energy Efficiency, less Global Warming, and the Increase prices of supplies are inevitable!


CHEMOURS refrigerant range of OPTEON gasses are true drop in replacements and meet the above reduction levels, obviously thorough evacuation is essential, but save the pumped out charge for reuse!! (not quite certain this is legal- OK if the product is either returned to distributor for reclamation or used directly as recycled product by the end user it came from ) and NO MIXING of refrigerants can be undertaken on topping up systems. Oils are reusable in replaced systems.


Booklet guides from the addresses below are available and by searching the web for full DUPREX calculations and software to download for free data and guidance.

 WARNINGS Use Oxygen monitors in leak conditions - re breathing in contaminated air . Do not use open flames. And during new installation if you detect a visible change in the size or colour of a flame when brazing to repair equipment STOP work and leave the area immediately! Ventilate thoroughly!

(Not sure that Mark commented on this but its in their guidance notes!!? )

With our usual delivery of half time drinks, questions and chat followed this presentation  (which this report does insufficient justice to the host of data so keenly given)


So please check out the following for more detail 



 Mark Hughes mobile 07785925556 This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.   and  web www.opteon.com

 The Chemours Company, Windham Road, Chilton Industrial Estate Sudbury CO10 2XD


Martyn Sentance BOC Refrigerants Mob: 07785517097 This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.





Minutes of 2014/5 monthly meetings follow in reverse order:-
We resume our  next season of meetings on  10th September 2015 
(Is it our 50th season already?)


Thursday 9th April 2015

Our season finished with our "Stan the Man's" conducted tour of Greenwich Village- via St Alfege Church of  then to the Greenwich Park, The Greenwich Observatory (via the very steep Hill) to see the Meridian Line, Olympic Equestrian site, then down again to The Sailors Hospital, Old Power Station, via 2 excellent pubs, and views across the River as the sun set over London, Yes I'm sure the 20 who attended enjoyed the wealth of knowledge he imparts of the history, dates and anecdotes of the areas we have visited over the years.

Stan emailed me today thanking us for being so attentive!!

We of course, hope to recommence our regular Thusday meetings in September 2015. So please renew your membership at only £15 pa. and look at the web site to be aware of our diary which will be updated as soon as confirmed (calendar page)


On Thursday 12th March 2015

 Our thanks to Keith Sweatman of Airedale who at our March meeting gave a very informative talk on F Gas new regulations: his companies history and their latest “CO2 Efficient Chiller Systems”

The gas of the future is R1234ze , along with the “TorboCor” compressor which is oil and bearing free!  This is Airedales future for their air conditioning plant to emerge from their brand new state of the art factory in Leeds.

  The “TorboCor” compressor is heavily dependant on electronics which controls the output, speed, “bearing suspension location” and leak detection system. These units come in modules from 3Kw to 2Mw  (which are 13m long!)

  The self-contained systems also have panel style condensers and EBM fans, which deliver chilled water for the customer’s requirements.

  As we should all know R134a has a legal limited life from 2020 and Airedale see “Hydro Fluoro Olefins” as their future.  R134a has a Global Warming Potential of 1430 whilst R1234ze has a rating of only 7GWP!  (note R23 has a GWP of 14800!)

  The lifespan of released gasses are revealing too 134a takes 13.4 years whilst R1234ze is 10 days!

  Although flammable Hydro Fluoro Olefins have a low grade heat/flame potential so these gasses automatically satisfy BREEM Standards

  May we remind you too that all name plates on plant must be marked visibly and indelibly with the refrigerant gas type, charge, weight in equivalent tonnes of CO2 and  this  label must be in the members language!  This must also be include in the instruction manuals for each system.

  Keith then answered varied questions after and during his presentation. from our 15 members present on the night

  Contacts: for Airdale

 Airedales Web site is www.airedale.com       And Keith:-  Southern Area Senior Sales Manager can be contacted via This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

On Thursday 12 Feb 2015  We met to hear an excellent discussion presented by Mr Roger Smith of Agas.

 13 members attended the Greenwich Tavern where, Mr Roger Smith of “A Gas” informed and entertained us with his interpretation of the latest and future regulations.

       All of you obviously know that to buy or use refrigerants you and your company MUST be registered with Refcom, Bureau Veritas or Quidos, your gas supplier will only supply when your company and you have been verified.

      Gas weights used, decanted or recycled have to be logged in the site log book and the owner must sign for work done at the time of action!. Also refrigerant intended to be destroyed or cleaned has to be recorded on the appropriate Waste Disposal form, with Weight, System ID and Company/Operative ID at the time of decanting from the system.

       The future of F Gas legislation is still unknown but we do know that the volume of Global Warming Potential gasses must dramatically reduce year by year! This can be done by replacing old systems with cleaner substitutes so that by 2030 the Total Value of GWP brought into the country is approximately 20% current levels.

       Tied in with the volumes of GWP gases in each system legally defines maintenance and leak checking frequencies, 6 months seems to be the time intervals for larger systems. So are we informing our customer / owners of future changes that gasses may/ will have to be changed and the rising cost of increased maintenance and new F Gas purchase?

       A Gas have a free app called GTO (gas track on line) which is easily downloaded to you mobile which calculates the GWP for a system. This App can also be used to record and track your gas usage / Disposal.

       By 2017 it is a legal requirement to permanently label each system with charge type and weight and leak checking frequency. This is the installers responsibility, but on existing systems YOU the maintenance company have to ensure each system complies.

       Domestic units, when purchased the shops “Currys” etc record the units details and at their disposal if found abounded units can be back tracked and dumping fines imposed!! Therefor when buying new get the supplier to remove old or take to a council recycling dump!

       Roger gave many examples of gas equivalents for replacements and he answered a host of questions with humour and knowledge, but basically blends of HydroFlouroOlefins (Modified HFC’s) which are MILDLY Flammable are the future!

       By MILDY Roger explained that these gasses only light with a hot flame, and do not support their self ie when the heat is removed the flame goes out and these are not Explosive, So providing the plant room and evaporator are well ventilated there is minor chance of major damage.

      The Meeting finished with thanks to Roger for his presentation and to Brendan for his continued work in finding excellent speakers


For more information look up A Gas (UK) Ltd web site www.agas.com or call 01275376600



On Thursday 8th January 2015:

15 of our members met at the Greenwich Tavern for the first meeting of the year in our new venue.  We welcomed Mr Peter Dyment of Camfil Air Filtration Systems, who have their UKHQ and factory in Haslingden Lancashire.

  Peter gave a most informative talk on the Camfil company production and research over 50 years into providing top quality air filters for every industry from Medical, Scientific, and of course Refrigeration.  He explained how Low Energy Air Filters save on energy costs as well as providing improved air cleansing performance.

  This in real figures can be savings as much as £300 per year per individual filter in an air handling system! The payback time for such measures can be measured in one or two months. Therefore large plants with many Processing areas, Computer suites, Operating Theatres, Board Rooms etc all benefit with reduced energy and running costs, less down time and better indoor quality air.

  Peter told how London Street Air quality is very poor and maps were shown of air pollution concentrations mainly due to vehicle emissions. London Air is up to 300 times dirtier with fine combustion particle concentrations than the country side away from traffic emissions.

These invisible fine particles affect the lung performance then penetrate into the blood  stream, causing cancers and damage to vital body organs. Effective air filters provide the best protection for people inside buildings.

  For smaller buildings without a centralised air system the new Camcleaner air purifiers can offer fast a plug-in solution for cleaning air at an initial cost of about £10 per M3. These units have H13 Hepa filtration with molecular gas filtration to remove air pollutants such as Nitrogen dioxide to a high level of efficiency.


In heavy industry such as Oil rigs: sea salts can enter processes, and in Nuclear systems clean environments are obviously essential. Whilst bearings of precision  compressors will suffer if the smallest molecular contaminants enter bearings and controls. Etc.

Camfil provides a clean air solution for individual customers that can include filter optimisation, duct or coil cleaning, system validation, energy efficiency measures. AHU Intake and Chiller screens are often required.

  After our usual “half time tea break” Peter answered many varied questions. Our Chairman warmly thanked Peter and presented him with “full bottle” as a small token of appreciation.

 If you have a question of these about air filters please look up their comprehensive web site www.camfil.com  or email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. '; document.write(''); document.write(addy_text24187); document.write('<\/a>'); //-->\n This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Our next meeting is at the Greenwich Tavern on  February   12th   2015 with     Mr Roger Smith of A-Gas      


Jan 1st 2015

Hi Guys  

Shabbir has found the new venue  below

The Greeenwich Tavern
1 King William Walk, Greenwich London SE10 9JH

So we have our first meeting of the new year on Next Thursday 8th January 2015 in their top room. They do light meals beforehand and parking seems OK after 5pm on the roads which are outside the congestion zone. (They are residents only up to 5pm)

Our speaker is planned to be Mark Taylor - of Camfil  filtration systems-

 As previous we will get drinks and  maybe pre meeting meal/ snacks


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